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First review of the TWB guys
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LemoN
Chief Warrant Officer
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:09 pm Posts: 266 Location: Austria
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 First review of the TWB guys
Well, first "review" is up, written by TWB*MorganEarp http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/s ... stcount=87Pagro182 wrote: As I gather more thoughts I'll add to the posts...
Jim Miller and I had the opportunity, as you all know, to play test the new Red Orchestra game, Heroes of Stalingrad. Unfortunately Jim is a bit camera shy so all you can see in the photos is the back of his head. The visit with Tripwire went great our visit coincided with a visit from Slashandbash and Georgi, a reporter from a Russian gaming magazine.
In any case I know you all want to know my thoughts on the game. As I put in an earlier post, It is everything the Red Orchestra Ostfront (RO) wanted improved without taking away from the “realism” and yet fixes, at least in my opinion many of the issues I have found playing Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.
First and foremost, graphically the game is outstanding. I noticed while watching Ramm-Jaeger run through some parts of the game play for us, that the muzzle flashes varied. After chatting the the lead for that part of the game, I was right, they have made multiple animations for something as simple as a muzzle flash and then randomly assign the flash you get for each round. This kind of attention is everywhere in the game and when watching someone else play, is truly amazing. I admit to not noticing it while getting killed by among other, Ramm-Jaeger, Dr Guppy and Redeye. (Thanks guys for shooting me so much if you read this.) The game has a very realistic feel to it, probably from the background work by the team. Maps are real life scaled. It really became apparent when we played Fallen Fighters, the HOS version of Fallen Heroes from RO. At first I looked at the map and went, “Oh yeah, I got this.” I go running out to the square and the next thought was, “Holy cow, this is huge” Thought after that was a bullet from Redeye in my head... Lesson, don't stop unless you are behind something, preferably concrete, because bullets can get you through lighter materials, depending on many factors. Let me make one thing clear, the videos do not do the game justice, it is so far better than the videos show that you just can't really compare them.
Where do I start and where can I go on game play itself? Maybe I'll hit this in two parts, first what the RO players will look forward to and then for the CoD and MOH players.
For the RO players, HOS is a cure for the things that bothered me from RO. You can climb over things, and it doesn't take forever to do, very smooth, much like CoD. The PPSH does not kill the sky, you can actually hold it on target, give or take a bit. You can predict the muzzle sway, and it's not that bad in the first place, it moves with you breath, which you can control, or as Ramm-Jaeger put it, “You don't hold you breath and then suddenly turn into a meth addict.” Close enough may not count but it will sure do in a pinch – Suppression, a great effect that is hard to explain; but trust me -- you fire your weapon in the general area of the enemy and not only will he know it, he will prefer to be somewhere else. No one is going to stare down an MG and live. Personally, I preferred running when the suppression got to high, usually to somewhere safe, where Dr Guppy then shot me and I died slowly.
Which brings me to death, you don't necessary die immediately, and you may have a few alternatives, you might be able to bandage yourself up and keep fighting, or if you have your weapon and run into you attacker someplace nice, like a hall, blast him before you die. At least you know you went out fighting. It sounds a lot like last stand in CoD, but you only have a matter of seconds and even less or none if your attacker was smart enough to fill you with lead.
Finally for the RO side, there is a new concept of “Cover” in the game, as you approach virtually all doors or openings an little icon shows on the bottom of the screen alerting you to the ability to use the object for cover. A single tap of a key engages the cover, it can break it as well, but why when you can just walk away instead. The idea is ingeniously executed, once in “cover”, you can simply peek over the top, blind fire, or pop up and take aim. While taking aim, you can use you “crouch” key to duck temporarily. Aiming is easy, push you mouse where you want to go, want to slide across a window, but stay in cover, just move left or right. You can even aim down or around corners, but be aware, you expose yourself the farther you go; and then DrGuppy shoots you and you die slowly, again.
Thinking back I blew the one great chance for blind firing, I had Ramm-Jaeger and Redeye, my mortal enemies down a hall and I had some piece of furniture to hide behind. RO overtook what I could have done in HOS, and I pulled my head and gun up and killed them, only to be killed by someone else. Had I been thinking, I could have killed them both with blind fire, they had no where to go. SO there will be a little bit of a learning curve.
For the CoD and MoH players of the crowd, unless you are just diametrically opposed to World War II based shooters, this game is great. Spawn issues, not here. You can choose to spawn on your squad leader, but if he is under fire, you will spawn safely near him, but not in the action. You can also choose from other spawn points that may bring you into the action from a direction needed. One caveat in the Fire Fight mode (sort of a team death match), you tend to spawn right at the action to keep the fight going, I did get a quick spawn/die, as I spawned in an open doorway, but I saved a comrade from being killed by Redeye, so I think of it as a wash. But it only happened once, so I take that as an anomaly, and a good one at that.
Oddly in HOS you guns kill things, and do so quite efficiently. No more wasting a clip to kill someone. You hit him and he will know it, and in all likelihood die from it. Hip shooting is still hard, although I did get a guy in smoke with a bolt action rifle, pure luck I think, but heck it counts. However, shooting you PPSH as I mentioned above is controllable even on full auto. So with any minor skill you should be ably to whirl around corners and blaze people down. Oh and especially for Kingy, you can carry your MG34 and hip shoot it quite easily, not too accurately but good enough. Now brace it and that is a fine weapon.
On the subject of accuracy, oddly pistols don't kill people across maps, nor do SMGs. Strange that a weapon can have an actual accuracy, but if the hints were interpreted correctly, it is simply the accuracy, not the bullet itself that gives out. You might catch a stray which was not intended for you.
Game types are far more plentiful that in RO, there is even a “Sabotage” style map, where you only have one life, but if you cap the objective, everyone comes back and can continue the fight. There are the territory capture maps which sway back and forth from one side to the other, and there is a full campaign mode. I didn't really follow how it works, but in a very morale crushing Pyrrhic victory, we won a round and loss half our reinforcements ultimately causing our defeat for the campaign. Which is set in a series of fight chosen by the winning side from the last round and much like the board game risk, the object is to force the other side out of Stalingrad, or our of people to fight.
The game is truly amazing, I am certain my wife will hate it, as I already spend too much time playing games, and even in the 3.5 hours we played yesterday, time just stood still. It is a thoroughly engrossing and captivating game, once you get rolling especially in the campaign mode, you just want to keep fighting until you win.
_________________ Quote: Yes. One or the other. Or if not, then some other time.
Last edited by LemoN on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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| Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:36 am |
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Hockeywarrior
Private 1st class
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:07 pm Posts: 13
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 Re: First review of the TWB guys
Nice write up! I loved how your cause of death was always Dr. Gruppy lol.
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| Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:56 pm |
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valleyhunter
Lt. Colonel
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:21 am Posts: 763 Location: Prague, CZ
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 Re: First review of the TWB guys
"Slashandbash" iBleed, what did you do to him? 
_________________Peace, Valleyhunter "I come in peace, I didn't bring CoD4, but I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you play MW2, I'll kill you all.Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal LAN party leaders"
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| Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:01 pm |
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Jo3_23
Brigadier General
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 10:31 am Posts: 1695 Location: UK, Merseyside, Southport
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 Re: First review of the TWB guys
nice write up i wana go of the game now 
_________________PST*Joker "I'v always like it in my hand." 
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| Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:13 pm |
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TWB*MorganEarp
Private
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:44 pm Posts: 3
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 Re: First review of the TWB guys
It was not like I didn't get Guppy back, but he is very good, he made a lot of the mod maps for the old RO before they hired him on.
Redeye was just laying waste to me from range, every time I got in the open, one or the other was shooting me.
It was great meeting with ibleedv20 and the Tripwire team.
As I come up with more posts about the game, I'll try to remember to drop them in here as well.
Much like ibleed, I play multiple games, just got off BlackOps with my fellow clanmates. Unfortunately they are all PC so my comparisons will be skewed that way.
In any case, it was great meeting ibleed, and hope everyone buys this game, even in it's current late Allpha stage wit was a blast to play. I like the hard core Black Ops and MoH modes, and this is a bit harder than that, but the learning curve is not nearly as sttep as the original RO.
Last edited by TWB*MorganEarp on Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:52 pm |
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GutshotYooper
Captain
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:24 am Posts: 560
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 Re: First review of the TWB guys
Great review MorganEarp! And good name also. I'm a bit of an old west buff, so I can appreciate a fine handle like yours.
_________________ I used to play BF3 like you. Until I took an arrow in the knee.
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| Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:41 pm |
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TWB*MorganEarp
Private
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:44 pm Posts: 3
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 Re: First review of the TWB guys
Second Installment: Equipment I want to run through some of the equipment I was able to test when up at Tripwire. A caveat here, I only got to play the Axis side against bots, and Allies against real people. (DrGuppy sure seemed real, but who knows) I did try my best to try out every weapon, and I'll try to give a run down by side and compare them to both what I see of them in RO and other games.
For the Axis:
Kar 98 – Better graphics and animations than in RO. Shoots pretty much the same, but I did really appreciate being able to adjust the sights for range. I find myself playing RO now and wishing I could do that instead of the old Kentucky Wind-age rangefinder trick. Different from RO, the breathing can be controlled when not braced (as it can on all the weapons) so you don't get a random sway and can actually predict the muzzle movement. The muzzle movement will make it a bit harder to fire for the non-RO players, but as I may have mentioned it is really not that bothersome. Just makes spraying and praying truly lucky to hit things. I did not recall seeing a lot of people move after getting hit by the bolt action rifles. However, this is based on hit detection, which is very precise. Unlike most of the other more current time frame games, there are a lot of bolts out there and are probably the most common weapon.
Kar 98 Sniper – Against bots this was a fun weapon, Again dialing in the range was just sweet. First shot low? Just roll the mouse and add a 100 meters. Dropping to the iron sights took remembering which key to press, but I think I can grow in to that. Unlike snipers ion many other games, the controlled breathing comes in helpful, you can just keep it on as long as you wish, its effect did change the longer you help it, but you never gave a fast shudder and went nuts. Also you can shoot fairly well even without the controlled breathing.
MG34 – Okay, be honest, who doesn't love mowing down bots with an MG? Anyone? It got so fun, I almost forgot to keep trying other weapons. The sound is awesome, the clinking of the metal... Oh, I can't wait to get back to this puppy. Also you can hip fire it a bit better than in RO, but not nearly as accurately as in CoD or MoH style games. It was accurate enough I was willing to go for it instead of switching to a pistol, but certainly would not be the primary choice of how to use it. I really like being able to duck while reloading, or fire blindly, it is just soooo much fun!! MKb42 – A pre-STG44 assault rifle. Works much like the STG44 in RO, better graphics, better sound. I didn't find many other differences between the two. For the CoD and MoH crews, this would bring you right at home with the various assault rifles. It seemed to have slightly less hitting power, this mostly from the two or three wound messages I got in a hurry before dying as a Russian. But in shooting bots, this was a fine weapon with both Semi-auto and full auto modes.
Grenades – New in the animation for the grenades was a two click to through system. First pulled the pin second threw the grenade. Also grenades near you push up your suppression so near misses may be helpful. Playing with the devs didn't see much in 'nade spam, but I almost wish there was a command for throwing grenades at a target, as 'nade spam is just plain irritating in RO. You can still cook a good 'nade before throwing, which happened to me a bit. Maybe if I'd move every now and then, they wouldn't find me with cooked 'nades?
G41 – Nice to be able to break a reload. I found myself reloading 5 rounds instead of 10 most times the action was near. Shoots nice, but it did the same in RO. For the non-RO players out there, shoot much like an M14 or FAL, except it is loaded with stripper clips, instead of a box mag.
I have typed enough for today. I'll post up on the Russians next and then on the maps we played. By the way, these are the weapons I can recall using, besides pistols. There may have been more, but I can't remember them, or didn't use them.
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| Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:40 pm |
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TWB*MorganEarp
Private
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:44 pm Posts: 3
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 Re: First review of the TWB guys
I'll try to address TWB*ButchCassidy's questions below:
Do the maps lend themselves towards Clan matches? Did you see anything preventing matches? How do the new game types play and do they actually improve the match side? (i.e. are they linear like COD's Search and destroy or MOH's Combat mode or are they much more versatile. In other words what sort of tactical possibilities for team play do these new game types present.)
For clan matches I thinks some of the game modes will lend themselves well.
Although I truly enjoyed the campaign mode we played, I don't see it being great for clan matches, the reality is it is probably two hours plus to finish, and I am not certain a lot of clans will be able to dedicate that much time to finish a match. However I could see this as a good server option, as there is a choice of next map and type of game, it will be interesting to see what the server options are.
The territory mode is much like the current RO, and well suited for clan matches, there really isn't much of a change to it from how matches are currently played. One change is the ability of the SL to push all the reinforcements to spawn at one time. You can't do this all the time, but in a crucial window you can. I think that is a huge tactical change as you can really change the balance if you need to.
The countdown mode I think would be very good for clan matches, as you get one life per objective, but then if you cap the objective everyone respawns and starts over. But as I have experiences, if you just get owned in the fight and they defenders hold you the map ends, and you don't have to bang your head on a wall for 20 minutes.
Much like TWB* has run Genocide in the past, the Firefight mode is a TDM play. I think for a tourney, this might prove very fun. It has a bit of a tough part to it, in that respawns tend to be put into the fight, instead of at a base spawn. So unlike how Genocide has worked out, I don't think a Firefight Match would be low scoring, it is just not set up to put you away from the fight.
Territory and Countdown are linear style maps, in that you go from cap A to cap B, etc. But there are no caps in Firefight, so it is highly fluid.
Did you try or see the SL role in action? Are there any changes? Has the role been increased or lessened in importance?
I played Squad Leader against the bots, and it worked marvelously. You also have a Commander role, as with larger player numbers you have multiple squads, each with their own squad leader. The additional squads and roles only open up as more players join the server, so, for instance, you won't get 3 squad leaders and no rifleman. The squads are of various composition, MG, Assault, Sniper, etc, and the actual slots then vary within that.
The command function of the Squad Leader was actually very simple, you pressed a key to cycle to who you wanted to give orders to, e.g., Riflemen, Entire Squad, Sniper, etc. Then, if I remember correctly, you pressed and held your use key down to bring up the menu and selected your order with your mouse and then an icon shows up that you click on the map for where you want the action to be. This is all an in game overlay like a HUD.
As an example, I selected my riflemen on Danzig in the Langermark, I then had the SL menu pop up on screen, and was able to tell them to lay suppressing fire on the window the Russian MG was firing out of, they riflemen then set up and opened fire on it. With real players, you would also gain experience for following the orders. This goes for movement, attacking etc.
When we were playing with the Devs, we didn't use it as much, as they have all played before and were on TS together. I think it is something the Squad Leaders and Commanders are going to need to be conscious of as it will help level up players and add to the immersive experience
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| Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:51 pm |
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ZeroCool
Sergeant
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:41 pm Posts: 115 Location: Buckinghamshire, England
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 Re: First review of the TWB guys
Thanks for bringing us these reviews - very informative and much appreciated 
_________________The Old Gits Army
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| Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:59 am |
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