The key for modding for me isn't so much in the total conversions, sure they are nice but they often take very long to develop, resulting in a release when a game is out of its prime (Especially since cod got yearly releases etc), which is why its nice that mod teams for RO2 for instance have been working on their mods for over a year now.

However modding tools allow for more things than total conversions, like custom maps, or for instance competitive and admin mods. Even if a game becomes really complex, by using existing assets, loads of mappers can make great creations without even having to touch something like 3ds max or maya.

So by not having mod tools you do not only take out the Total Conversions, you take out the map makers, the competitive play mod makers, the weapon makers, the game type makers. All things that only require one person with a desire to create something, and not require a full fledged organized modding team.

Not all types of mods have to take a long time, and its especially those small mods that allow competitive play to flourish. And its a variety in maps that keeps games being interested for me.

I've never seen any game developer get all the competitive tools needed for a game right, nor all the tools needed for administrators. Without mod tools you can never obtain those things.

WRONG. Since we are in the BF section, look at BF2. It had mod tools and all the dlc (armored fury and euro forces) and expansions (special forces) are 10 times more popular than ANY of the mods the community released. Go out and look at the player counts.


Wrong again. There are some great custom maps, but I have never seen a 24/7 (custom map name) on a BF or COD server and it actually have traffic compared to the popular stock maps (wake island/carentan/etc).


Yep I do, but it doesn't do you any good because most can't keep a server populated with custom maps. Official DLC is a lot easier because it's more popular.



Well it's a bad deal for them, but the majority don't care. With rank systems and yearly releases, those things are not what the majority cares about anymore. Sad but true.

Oh god, I keep telling myself, why do I even argue with TRTL?

He's just a fanboyish troll, as proven many many times before.

This is all true, but not as clear as it should be. It's hard to keep custom maps servers populated because they have to be unranked servers. For a great many players, being unable to rank up and prestige takes away their motivation to play the game. Bash has a huge thread on the subject (Bash 164: On the Same Page?), and I gave a full explanation of my position over there.

The ranked vs. unranked dichotomy is where everything falls apart for modders and mappers. They're better off taking their talents to other games that don't split their communities by design. Frankly, we'd all be better off just not playing games that are set up that way.

Well there are enough games with custom maps that do allow you to rank up on them. Not allowing that is more of a choice than a default action.

Don't argue, have a discussion. That is what we are suppose to be doing here.

I try to post facts, sorry if those deflate your fanboy comments.





Good post Messiah. But I am not sure if the ranked servers started the decline in playing maps/mods, or if it was the last nail in the coffin. Also might depend on what game specifically you are talking about. Because you could probably give a example of each in different games.

Sounds like a lot has to do with lack of tools and Frostbite not being a friendly engine to work with verses something like Unreal.
I can't speak to other engines but epic provides a lot of support for Unreal. Not only is it easy to download and set up but they provide videos, etc. to show people how to use it. Furthermore, there are a number of books to instruct one on it as well. This is why, in addition to tools, we'll see a lot of mods for an unreal based game like ROHoS...tripwire not only supports it but uses an engine that makes it easy for them to do so.

The first Frostbite was created for consoles and ported over for BC2 and MOH. They have re-written the entire code for BF3 and created it for pc first. Then they will tone it down for consoles. First game in a while that is actually pushing the pc platform with graphics and gameplay.

Would've been great if there had been Frostbite mod tools. Like right now for instance. Since Dice has washed their hands of BC2 after one year and have moved on, I'm stuck with a game that I still enjoy, but the maps are getting old and tiring. This is why mod tools are important. Could've been some custom maps at least for it to keep it interesting. I wonder if they will wash their hands on BF3 after a year?

Its pushing the graphics of the PC, but what gameplay aspects are new? Destructible cover has been done before, compared to HOS this game seems to have far less features