I don't accept that for a second. The success of MW2 over IWnet would not have "forced" Treyarch to also go down the path of P2P. And Treyarch have said as much:



http://www.computerandvideogames.com/ar ... ?id=269033

So, there you have it - it never crossed their minds to use a P2P system at any stage.

Ha! don't believe what they say they say anything that will sell their game e.g. "you can completely customize unranked severs" from PC_Dev if it had been successful they would have been told to by Activision even if they are loyal to the PC community, it says it in your quote, IW faced the wrath of the PC gamers if we had just taken it COD bo would have been very different i am willing to bet my pc on it

I work in the game industry, and I can tell you - a publisher never makes design decisions. It may dictate things like title, release date, and platform, but never how the game will be actually made. Therefore, if Treyarch decided to use dedicated servers, that was their decision alone. If Infinity Ward decided to use P2P, that was their decision alone.

And as for not believing what the developers tell us, the alternative is to listen to all the little internet/forum "experts" who don't know their ass from their elbows, who make things up as they go along to suit themselves. Personally, I always believe the developers unless they demonstrate to me that they aren't trustworthy. It's called giving people the benefit of the doubt. After all, who knows better than the developers? The little internet/forum experts, or the people who actually make the damn game?

Actually, if you look at it objectively, Treyarch have acheived exactly the same thing as IWNet, minus the matchmaking. The need to lock down the game so as to preserve game integrity, and the need to take critical game files off the client's PC and store them on a cloud - both of these things were acheived in more-or-less the same way by both IW and Treyarch - by using Steam. The only thing they did differently was that IW chose to go with P2P for mathcmaking and Treyarch chose to create a partnership with Gameservers for dedicated gameplay. But the decision to use dedicated servers couldn't have waited a whole year before they decided to use it. They couldn't have sat back and waited to see what happened with the MW2 matchmaking. That's almost a whole year off their development time. They simply had to have made the decision to use dedicated servers at the very outset of development because the netcode is dependent on that decision. And seeing as the netcode is one of the biggest changes Treyarch have made compared with World at War, what with the use of DemonWare for the browser stats, and the Steam Cloud to store all the player stats, custom playercards, theatre mode, etc, that would have been at the top of the development list. As a software engineer I can tell you, there is no way it would have only been started late 2009. It would have been started on late 2008, early 2009 because of the time frame.

*** (redacted by mod)

I did not disparge anyone in particular. That remark about internet/forum "experts" was not aimed at Joe particularly. I was speaking generally. As for some calling me Tally, I have no idea who that is. As for supposedly being an "imposter", just who am I supposed to be impersonating? Is there perhaps another Dante that you think I am impersonating? If so, who is he, and want has he done?

I suggest that by your personal remarks about me, you have just become guilty of the very things you say I am guilty of. And of course the word for that is hypocrisy. In future, I suggest you keep your personal remarks about me to yourself. I don't care for them. Go flame someone else.

but do you really think if they were thinking about P2P when IWnet was played and they saw how angry we were about it and how badly it worked, if you were with them would you even mention the fact that it was a possibility at one point in the development time but was ruled out because it was so hated or would you keep that bit quiet and tell us

"We had dedicated servers in our last title, we had planned on dedicated servers for our subsequent title all along, so we haven't actually wavered on that at all"

I love the game btw but i will not forget the fact i am being talked to by business men or puppets of theirs (JD_2020 i like him but he has to do as he is told not to say what he really thinks e.g. the Rcon tool he said was amazing.....), business men are not trustworthy when selling a product, and i am shore Activision has a rather big part to play in the making of COD they have there men at all levels e.g. IW.

+ lets not be disparaging or snap at each other no one who says they work in the game industry on the internet is taken seriously it is 2 easy to lie about it (im not saying your not Dante just that people may not believe it, not trying to offend you ) e.g. i could say i did for a time as i worked in GAME UK it makes my opinion no more valid then anyone else's

+ i don't get offended easy i love to discus subjects ppl feel strongly about i wouldn't be good at that if i got offended easily hehe

I didn't have a clue what you were on about, so I googled around a bit, and was surprised to find I got some relevant hits:

http://iwnation.com/forums/topic/26799- ... _p__254472

http://iwnation.com/forums/topic/26799- ... _p__254482

http://iwnation.com/forums/topic/26799- ... _p__254678

http://iwnation.com/forums/topic/26799- ... _p__254710

So, if the "some" you refer to are ********************, then from the look of it, they have been wrongly accusing countless people of being this person Tally for many years (those posts are from 2007). In the last link, they even wrongly accused some guy of being Grant Collier! That made me lol. You would think that if they had a history of accusing people of being Tally, and getting it wrong, that they would stop doing it. Guess that logic doesn't apply to them - they don't learn from their mistakes. Not the most reliable people in the world then!

I didn't know the name "Tally" at first, so again I googled it, and found that a relevant link came back to here - Bash&Slash:



http://bashandslash.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=82

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... HfuJ84AvXg

I am not this guy, and at first I thought being accused of being him was going to be a bad thing, but from the look of it, he must have been an alright guy if he made it into a Hall of Fame.

It is interesting that I mentioned the internet/forum "experts" who don't know their arse from their elbows, and lo and behold the name of ***** comes up. These **** are, in fact, a shining example of the "experts" I was referring to - those that don't know their arse from their elbows. In my short association with their pathetic site, I learnt that they believe the following:

1. That Black Ops would never have any community made Rcon tools, because, according to *****, Activision are "locking the game down tight". Plenty of community made Rcon tools for Black Ops floating around, and more in development.

2. That Black Ops wont get any mod or map tools. According to PCDev, they are developing the mod and map tools right now. They are going to be released sometime in the new year. ******** - that's full mapping tools as well! The ones you said were never going to come.

3. That the Black Ops server files would be leaked within days of release. Still no leaking of those files, four weeks after release.

4. That Black Ops would be infested with hackers from Day One. So far, this has been the cleanest Call of Duty title to date. VAC is doing a brilliant job of banning them, and along with the server admins banning those they see, we see fewer hackers in the game compared with how it was with COD4 on its release. I have personally only seen 3 or 4 in over 120 hours of gameplay.

I have heard the head administrator at ****** is referred to as <redacted by moderator>

Gentlemen, I have read the last 5-6 posts and I can see we are getting very exasperated over the game and we are now resorting to non-friendly messages. Please refraim from using insults and lets keep it nice.

Tally is <redacted by moderator> could say, don't take that the wrong way Dante, I would just shorten your posts and make your points clear as there is just too much to read above, no-ones going to read it.

IMO, as a news reporter and contributor to Crosshairs show, we are always encouraging people to come forward to discuss Black Ops or other FPS news and join in a debate with ibleedv20.

With regards Petitions, I do beleive that a voice is an opinion which is normally against some kind of change, we had many of these throughout my life from the Iraq War to Dedicated servers, the message is clear and will be listened to by those who need it, look what the messages did to MoH renaming the Taliban to Opposing Forces. Pressure to sell the game is always going to be the developers nightmare.

With regards the development cycle, I am a coder myself and I would say there is a lot of 'recycling' when it comes to Call of Duty code through it's life, it is old code being re-worked to make new versions, as the code grows it is going to get shakey, which is why we look for other development studios and don't focus on one game.

So lets try and keep it civilised here please

Beak aka a Mod lol

Gentlemen,

Please refrain from attacking each other or other people. Aside from the fact that legal fees in the case of a libel suit would be prohibitive, I would like you to stop taking the piss out of each other cuz I would rather spend time playing than having to redact, edit or delete the posts on here.

In the immortal words of Rodney King...."why can't we just get along?"

Oh ya...I forgot, we're programmed not to



Oh well then...do the best you can.

if i offended people im sorry i never try to offend anyone and don't like calling names it gets nothing done

on a different note, I have a feeling that the P2P choice in MW2 was purely cash driven (especialy if the management already had ideas to get out).

All about the money
If you think about it, traditionally the publishers/studio have to provide some dedicated servers.

Now if this costs say $1m per year, it comes off the bottom line, so in order to negate it you need to great $10m just to keep 10% profit.

P2P completely removes this cost, meaning the studio needs to make $10m less if the profit margin is 10% (so if they are aiming for 40% they just saved $40m !!!)

Treyarch did it right
I would think Treyarch went a slightly different route, and I imagine said to Game Servers "We give you exclusive rights" (maybe for free) but you provide all the servers we need to launch for free

If true, Treyarch did a much better job going for the win-win solution (ie we get Dedi's and they get the same saving).

Personally I don't think P2P will ever really work on the PC, except for console games as it's too easy to hack. When you are running the server, you effectively own the "truth" of that match.

Would the Xbox MW2 have been hacked so much?
Had the PC not been P2P? My guess it that people tried hacking the PC to get dedi's, or to make a point. Once created people tried injecting them onto the 360.

I'm betting without the PC fiasco, most xbox hacks wouldn't have surfaced.