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GutshotYooper
Captain
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:24 am Posts: 560
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
Lol, TRTL. TWI could make a "TRTL Only" beta and you'd still rip it apart. Don't know what your reasons are, but if it says RO on it, you go into fail mode. But, whatever, you play iracing, so you can't be too bad of a guy, all told.
_________________ I used to play BF3 like you. Until I took an arrow in the knee.
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| Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:47 pm |
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TRTL
Colonel
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:51 am Posts: 832
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
GutshotYooper wrote: Lol, TRTL. TWI could make a "TRTL Only" beta and you'd still rip it apart. Don't know what your reasons are, but if it says RO on it, you go into fail mode. I just want to play something d@mnit!!!! GutshotYooper wrote: But, whatever, you play iracing, so you can't be too bad of a guy, all told. If these games that are coming out this year suck, I am going to buy a new wheel and retire from fps games!! 
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| Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:03 pm |
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TRTL
Colonel
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:51 am Posts: 832
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
Looks like there are others a bit upset. Post from [TW]Ramm-Jaeger Quote: Ah summer. The sun is shining, the release date is nearing, and the temperature in the RO2 forums has gone nuclear. So I've decided to pull myself away from working on finishing up the game to give a quick message to the community. My hope here is to get everyone to calm down a bit, take a few deep breaths, and stop freaking out.
To be honest with you, this is the worst I've ever seen the RO forums in 8 years of working on RO. And to be even more frank, I'm a bit ashamed of you guys. The RO community has always prided itself on it's maturity. We've quietly (or not so quietly) chuckled to our selves at "CS-Noobs" and "COD-Kiddies" secure in the knowledge that the RO community wasn't like those other guys. Now I get 10 PMs a day through Steam or Skype from new guys to the RO forums telling me they don't want to go here because of the flaming and vitriol coming out of these forums. Guys, you are better than this!!! I know it, because I've seen it in the past. So lets start proving to the world that the RO fans ARE more mature, and ARE the best fans in the world.
Now I'm going to post a few things in a little mini Q&A where I try and answer some of the questions or discuss issues the community has been discussing.
Q: All of your marketing seems to be aimed at attracting new players from outside the community instead of marketing the game to the RO faithful.
A: Let me just head something off at the pass right now. We're getting ready to release the box art for the game. And there is bound to be a 20 page thread of "OMG MkB42 Swat German" that rants and raves. Now instead of doing that, why don't you guys just hold off. Yes we're trying to expand the playerbase of the game, and yes a lot of our marketing art will be aimed at attracting a new audience. Why is that? Because we don't need to convince the RO faithful to check out RO. You guys already like RO1, and have at least some interest in RO2. Joe gamer does not, and we want to get "joe gamer" to have a look at the game. It is all about peaking their interest, and if we try and market the game like RO1, we'll attract only the same people. And we DO want to attract the same people, but we also want to bring in a lot more gamers.
Q: Why are you turning RO2 into COD
A: The short answer is we're not. As a matter of fact, if anything, the game is probably still a little too hardcore. If you've read any of the press previews they go on and on about how hardcore the game is. Now I believe part of this is just due to the fact that they were thrown into a playtest with a bunch of devs and testers that have been playing the game for years, and are super elite at it. But at its core, the game still plays like RO. It just now doesn't have a learning "cliff", it has a learning curve. And things flow a lot smoother, we've removed a lot of the barriers for entry. Of the RO1 fans that have entered the beta, 99.9 % LOVE RO2. The reason for this is that RO2 does just what we've said it does, it makes Red Orchestra more accessible while keeping the core gameplay elements (the heart and soul) of what the fans loved about RO1.
Q: But you've got weapon X that I just totally think is unrealistic which means you guys have gone off into fantasy land!
A: Get over yourselves. We use the same yardstick for inclusion of weapons in RO2 that we did in RO1. If it could possibly have been there, it is fair game to put in the game. We had the PPD40 in RO1, that rare weapon didn't ruin the game. Where was the outrage over the inclusion of the G41 in RO1? The fact is we're doing the same thing we've always done. It is just that some people have made it there personal mission to shout from the rooftops proclaiming their intelligence, and TWI's lack thereof. It is time for those people to sit down, zip it, and let the rest of us get on with enjoying RO2. And if all else fails, there will be options to remove any weapon, and any weapon upgrade for server admins. O P T I O N S are your friend You'll be able to customize the game heavily out of the box. And for those things you can't do as an option, there will surely be mutators soon after release, because the mod SDK will be available.
Q: But I'm afraid I won't be able to get enough people to play on a server with the super hardcore options that I like.
A: Let me get this straight - your afraid you won't be able to get 32 players out of the entire playerbase to fill up a server with the options that you like. Yet you want us to make the ENTIRE game that way? Doesn't sound like smart business to me. The good thing about growing the playerbase (which is what we're trying to do) is that it will attract all kinds. The bigger the playerbase, the better chance you have of filling up your server with all of the options just the way you like them.
Q: My opinion of realism is more correct than Tripwires
A: Great, go start your own game studio and make a game exactly the way you want it. That is what I did But seriously opinions on realism are like opinions on beauty, religion, politics, etc. Everybody's opinion differs and we can't make everyone happy (just look at the debate on FOV zoom on ironsights - it was always split 50/50 even between realism nuts). So we pick what we think is the best course of action, and listen to community feedback when it is reasonable, and well presented.
Q: But but but, what about bayonets!@#$@#$
A: Ok we'll give you this one. We've decided that everyone that owns RO1 will have a day 1 unlock of the bayonets for the Kar98 and the Mosin Nagant 91/30. So go stab happy right out of the gate! The other weapons you'll still have to earn them, but this is our compromise.
Q: Ok, so what about drum mags for the PPSH?
A: Sorry, the game has been balanced for the smaller mag capacity of the PPSH at the start. Since the rcecoil of SMGs in RO2 is more realistic (and much easier to control than RO1), we found that the PPSH was owning the universe. We had a few choices. We could have made it handle unrealistically and just nerfed the guns accuracy or boosted its recoil unrealistically. We could have heavily limited it's availability. Or we could start users out with a stick mag. We chose starting users out with a stick mag. Yes it's a little gamey, but it was the best compromise. Someone will certainly come out with a "PPSH drum mag instant unlock" mutator within a week of release if it bothers you that much
Q: You guys suck at PR, when are we going to see some HD gameplay videos? #$!@#
A: This is a side affect of being a smaller company (bigger than we used to be, but still smaller than others). All of the guys that would work on trailers are busy finishing up the art for the game. In August your going to see a LOT of media, including HD gameplay trailers. As a matter of fact, you're going to see the biggest media/marketing blast you've ever seen out of Tripwire in August. You won't be able to turn over a rock without seeing news, info, or ads for RO2. Anyone that doesn't know about RO2 at the end of August will have been living under a rock. We also want to ensure the first HD gameplay footage we release is really professional and gets people excited. This is why we haven't spammed out generic guys running around shooting people in maps videos.
Q: The silence is deafening, why are the devs so quiet?
A: Because we're busy working insane hours trying to finish up the best tactical shooter ever made!!! If we don't have time to sleep, see our families, eat, go to the bathroom, etc, then we REALLY don't have time to post on the forums a lot.
Q: But but but, why is all of the gameplay footage from conventions shakeycam?
A: For some strange reason, press people these days only bring equipment to record HD footage straight from game consoles. I know it is hilarious. Apparently most of the press are so used to game studios only showing console versions, they don't even bring the equipment to record from PCs to shows with them.
Q: It's only 1.5 months from release - why isn't X finished, why aren't you doing X yet, etc etc.
A: Well we made Killing Floor in 3 months with 10 people. We've got half that time left and 3 times as many people working on RO2. So you do the math A LOT of game development and polish happens in the last couple months of any games release.
Q: I read some guy's blog that says the game is ugly and is totally going to fail because Tripwire are liars and are the 4th side of the axis of evil !@#$
A: Said blogger and some of his buddies are disgruntled due to being turned down access to the beta, and are now taking it out on Tripwire. Take what these people say with a grain of salt. Most of the beta guys (including original RO1 guys and guys from other communities) really like the game. Some of the guys coming from other communities have some complaints about the game not being enough like COD. Some of the RO1 guys have a few minor complaints or things they would like to see change. But overwhelmingly the beta guys REALLY like the game. I'm going to post something here that sums it up really well that one of the betas said. Those of you that know Amerikaner know that this guy has a habit of speaking his mind, and is the furthest thing from a Tripwire "puppet" you can get on these forums. This was the feedback he posted on the private beta forums:
Amerikaner: I must say, the feel of the beta is pointing to RO2 being what I hoped it would be. It seems to retain what makes RO great, but pushes those characteristics to the next level by adding the complexity of a simulation like ArmA but in such a way that is inviting and smooth. One of the absolute greatest aspects of RO since the mod was that it really made you feel like you were firing a weapon. RO2 takes that to the next level. It sounds corny as hell but during the Fallen Fighters session today, after firing the Kar98 across the square, I honestly thought I smelled burnt gunpowder for a split second. It felt so real that my mind actually took me back to the range in my head. That's some damn good game mechanics. I cannot wait to play more.
So I'm going to leave you all with that. Hope things cheer up around here, and I look forward to seeing you guys on the battlefield. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/s ... ostcount=1
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| Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:41 pm |
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ButchCassidy
Master Corporal
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:46 pm Posts: 67
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
Yep a very timely and nessacary post from John Gibson about what can only be described as a "Realism Rage" outbreak on the TWI forums.. Mainly concerning a very small minority of players from the hardcore RO1 scene who were worried about RO2 not having the same realism features as RO1.. So they set about hijacking every thread they could in order to get the answers they sought.. It was a little unpleasant for a while as they started to make assumptions about the game without any proof what so ever and post it as fact..Believing the lack of answers from TWI was proof that they were right.. Phrases like betrayal, sell out and liars were used and it was at that stage that the regular community then got a little upset and a small flame war then ensued.. All in all a case of "handbags at dawn"..lol It took that rather extraordinary post from the CEO of TWI John Gibson to silence all the misconceptions, misinformation and general poor behaviour from everyone in order to once more bring harmony and love to the RO community..lol Jeez..drama queens or what.. 
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| Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:07 am |
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TRTL
Colonel
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:51 am Posts: 832
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
ButchCassidy wrote: Mainly concerning a very small minority of players from the hardcore RO1 scene who were worried about RO2 not having the same realism features as RO1.. I think you might be understating it just a little. It seems like it would take more than a "very small minority" of his fans to get upset, for him to take time out of his very busy schedule to write a very long post. Quote: Yes we're trying to expand the playerbase of the game, and yes a lot of our marketing art will be aimed at attracting a new audience. This is something that those people are concerned with and rightfully so. They see TWI for what they really are, a developer that is motivated by money (like any other). Here they are, second game in the series, and to some people's opinions they are abandoning their core group of players from the first game to try and expand. That feeling that TWI is a different developer than the big boys is starting to fade. We all have seen the releases of COD and how it's progressed, some see this as the writing on the wall and afraid TWI is following that the same path or something similar. Who knows if it will go that way or not. But if it does, some will look back at this moment and say, yep it started right here. As a Bf fan, I can relate. I like BF because it's NOT COD and I don't want it to turn into COD. I am sure the RO guys feel the same way. They are just trying to stand up for what they like and why they bought RO. Sorry, but I don't blame them a bit.
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| Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:35 am |
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Jo3_23
Brigadier General
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 10:31 am Posts: 1695 Location: UK, Merseyside, Southport
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
I think they r being stupid there has been no cod like features announced, the people who are moaning seem to want HOS to be RO1 with no changes at all. It is not the core it really is a small number of fourm members who were tolling everything. It's not like TWI are running away from their core fans 
_________________PST*Joker "I'v always like it in my hand." 
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| Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:18 am |
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Zetsumei
Warrant Officer
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:30 pm Posts: 180
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
All concerns are valid statements of those concerned. They are however not always presented in the best way, but that is quite common when people really care for a game and feel that things are being affected. Its not so much that they want the game to be like RO1, its rather that they want the ability to play the game without perks and unlocks in a historically correct setting.
A small minority can be very vocal (if anything no dedi servers in cod showed that). And the best way to make things calm again is simply to listen to concerns, which is what that post mostly seemed to be about. When people think they aren' t being heard they will shout louder till they will be heard.
As any company TWI create games as their job to support their lives. Nobody can tell where TWI will end up in the future, if they will act exactly the same as activision or not. For now they keep responding and listening to the community.
So far I really like most of what I've seen in the beta, and think that most people coming from the old RO will like it. Of course you can never predict things perfectly, as all people are different. But in that sense time will tell when the big 20k beta starts and people will be allowed to try it out.
I'm not really worried myself, and will just wait till people give their opinion.
_________________
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| Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:26 am |
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valleyhunter
Lt. Colonel
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:21 am Posts: 763 Location: Prague, CZ
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
TRTL wrote: They see TWI for what they really are, a developer that is motivated by money (like any other). You make that sound like a bad thing. Without money there would not have been RO1 and certainly no RO2. What differenciates some developers and publishers here is not the final goal but how they go about it. TRTL wrote: As a Bf fan, I can relate. Oh no, DICE and EA are only after your money! 
_________________Peace, Valleyhunter "I come in peace, I didn't bring CoD4, but I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you play MW2, I'll kill you all.Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal LAN party leaders"
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| Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:04 am |
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TRTL
Colonel
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:51 am Posts: 832
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
valleyhunter wrote: What differenciates some developers and publishers here is not the final goal but how they go about it. Exactly, that is what we are talking about. Obviously the hard core fans of RO are upset because they see TWI snubbing them and trying to cater to a crowd more like COD. So they are not happy with "how they are going about it". They see TWI acting like the bigger devs and getting away from their core hardcore fans, all for the sake of making more money. It's the same argument that the old hardcore fans of COD have. If you have been around long enough to have seen that.
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| Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:29 am |
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Jo3_23
Brigadier General
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 10:31 am Posts: 1695 Location: UK, Merseyside, Southport
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 Re: New PC Gamer Preview
But these people are not the only hardcore fans of RO1, there are lots of fans that are happy with the direction the game is taking 
_________________PST*Joker "I'v always like it in my hand." 
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| Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:10 pm |
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